Viewing a thread - New to the cattle game (2024)

Additional thought, tear out the old fence out, it will just be a place for brush etc. to grow and give you grief, if it is good enough to hold cattle then no need for a new fence.

Edited by WCWI 6/28/2023 22:16

+1, well said too, especially the 'decent fencer' part. You also lost me at 7 wires.

I'm not sure if the first part of your response is supposed to be a insult but I'm 21 and don't have 75 grand to throw at infrastructure to start this thing. I want to give this the best shot and do it right without going broke. I'm told by the experienced ones I talk to that with all that open space on 120 acres I shouldn't have too much trouble keeping them in. Otherwise thank you for your input

Edited by Matrixbird 6/28/2023 22:26

I don't think the first part was meant as an insult, just that all the answers you get will be entertaining. I fenced three sides of a 160 and around a U shaped 70 acre field on one side of the 160 for one of my pastures. We did it all ourselves and spent lesson than $10000 maybe less than $5000. Most of it is three wire hi tensile with a combination of wood, fibreglass and steel posts. 2 solar fencers were bought used at auction. We use steel conduit for ground rods, right bid wrong, it works. Kencove and Premier are good resources for material and instructions on how to build fence. I would agree with leaving old fence and putting a hot wire in front of it, part of ours is that way.

fencing is more of a art-there are several that treat it that way, You sound like a good neighbor,good fence does that!

Best of Luck!

Up here I get along fine with simple T posts with a wood H brace every once in awhile and then your typical wood corners. 8 ft tall wood posts four feet in the ground 4 ft above ground with four wire High tensile and one of them hot.
When I get super dry or in the winter if they start testing fences then you make one of the other wires a ground
Then we use a single poly wire and step in post to make the paddocks inside the pasture

I had some fencing videos otherwise there is a Tim guy from Australia on YouTube that does a great job on showing how to tie the knots and set up your wire

You can get a fence in faster if you let them pound in creosote posts and use high tensile wire. And it'll last for quite a while - until the posts rot.
Or you can make a permanent fence the first time. Hedge posts for corners and braces and then a hedge for every 3 steels for line posts. I'd prefer 6 strands of barb, but 5 would be ok. Replacing that fence will be your grandkids' or great grandkids' problem.

I recently took out some fence that my grandpa had put in sometime in the late 50s. I could grab those old hedge posts with the skid loader and pull them out of the ground whole. They could've been reused if you wanted to drill pilot holes for the steeples. On the other hand, I just started renting a pasture this year where the guy used creosote posts for all his wood posts. I know the black creosote posts now are better than the green ones he used, but well over half of the wood posts he put in during the 80s and 90s are rotten. I'd say half of those are completely rotted off and are either leaning over or being held up by the wires. I will not put a wood post in the ground that isn't hedge.

As far as high tensile vs barb, I do have some high tensile for rotational grazing (inside a barb wire perimeter). And I use poly rope to graze crop fields or CRP when it gets released. But all that requires a lot of checking. I check barb wire fences once a year before turning the cows out.

I do 2 wire hi tensile exterior fences with 75-90 foot spacing and I rarely have an animal out (never cows, maybe a calf). If you're new to hi tensile or near a major roadway then I'd recommend 3 strand and 60 foot spacing for peace of mind. The more wires you run, the higher the odds that your corner posts will get pulled over, or you just can't run enough tension on the wires. Get lots of power, plenty of ground rods, and run it so that power flows in the shortest direct line (i.e. if you have a square piece and your power source is on the SW corner, run power around each side so it meets on the NE corner, but don't connect the two). Fault finders are a great tool--if your fence is set up like in my example then they're really easy to use and can solve a lot of problems in a hurry.

Where will OP get gentle cows from? Who can guarantee bomb proof, civics minded cattle?
When your cows get out because a deer or grasshopper shorts the fence out, who has a corral to get them in and help you?
Who has cowsense and a horse to help this poster when they get out?
How many of your neighbors will “understand” crop damage?

Last thing anyone wants to see (maybe just me) is a set of cattle that are out in downtown Peoria running down a 4 lane with “Samaritan helpers” chasing them like a pack of wolves and screeching Indians, and 2 jump a median and crush a dodge minivan with a distracted mom and soccer coach, and chock full of nose-picking 1st graders….

“Making the news” ain’t for me….. folks have to be real about situations and the overhead it takes.

Everyone tells me that… I have no clue why anybody would be that interested

Some places its no big deal, just get them back in..................Other places, really, really, really not good when you have an excape.

Consider the exact location of the old fence. It may represent the known legal boundary of your tract. Regardless of current survey, a corner post that has been observed for 20 or more may now be a legal landmark. So, if you remove the old fence, consider documenting the line and the corners exact location. Often, a new fence is constructed exactly on a known legal boundary. You might choose to remove the old fence and build your new fence in the exact same location. You might choose to leave a few old line posts in your new fence as historical markers. You might choose to build your new single wire fence inside your old fence and to keep the old fence line and corner posts. It would be good to meet with the neighbors if corner posts are gonna be changed, so the existing corners are maintained and understood by all parties.

A strong , strong corner post and brace system is just like a house foundation. Did I mention strong?

Consider interior fencing to manage rotational grazing areas.

Talk to NRCS to see if you qualify for EQUIP funding in your situation, if you have creeks or ponds to fence out.

Plan to run the perimeter often, as Mr Murphy always has a bad plan for your fence.

When you are building the fence, just remember the old stories of smart Alec teenagers who were assigned a section of fence to build during the summer, of course, for character building!

Your admitted lack of livestock experience/knowledge is my biggest concern. Depending on your marriage status and whether or not you have employees around may be tipping point to this endeavor working before you ever get to what cheap fence you want to install. Is your significant other (if you have one) OK with you showing up late, or not at all, to some social outing because:
A: The cattle are out and occupying the county road
B: You counted the cattle and there are X missing.....the search begins now.....not at your leisure
C:. The cattle water supply is dry, running over, frozen, or broken and needs immediate attention.
D:. You were in your good clothes and ready to go and forgot to check fence. It will only take a minute to jump on the UTV and zip around the pasture. You return 20 minutes later covered in mud because you got stuck in the furthest point of the pasture and had to walk home.
E. You are heading out for the weekend in an hour and do a quick health check before you go (in your work clothes). You find an animal in need of veterinary assistance. The vet can't make it for at least two hours so you wait. Vet gets there, treats the animal, but realizes you need to get everybody else in to treat due to similar symptoms/concerns. You are now ready to depart for your weekend getaway 6 hours later.

While it may appear as though I am being an ass, many cattle owners were reading this, silently admitting to themselves all the times they remember experiences like these. If you have employees, friends, family, or neighbors that are good enough that will step in so your schedule never encounters an inconvenience, you are more lucky than most reading this. You may tell yourself that you are better than those examples, but if you own cattle, you WILL check off many of those boxes.

If you've got all that stuff figured out and just want some fence advice, here is mine. DO NOT leave the old fence outside the new fence as a second layer. Maintaining one good fence at times can be tough enough, so the second layer will get worse and worse over time and really not provide much value. Specifically it is a great source of busted/stray wires that touch and short out your "good" fence.

The easiest way to keep cattle from riding your fences is to have plenty of feed for them inside the fence. 120 volt fencers are much more powerful, consistent, and reliable with less hiccups than solar or battery units. 2 hot strands of high tensile or 3 strands with 2 hot and one ground should be cost effective and likely meet your needs. Setting good corners is the key, so if you don't know how to make one and do it right, hiring that out may be reasonable. After that, I install 5-6' T posts with Insulators. Depending on terrain, amount of tension, and how close the bottom wire is to the ground, they can be placed anywhere from 20-80 foot apart. The first picture below is a picture of a good corner assembly with the brace parallel to the ground. The second is a good example of how not to build a corner assembly as the corner post will get "jacked" out of the ground over time.

Edited by RCD 6/29/2023 08:47

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Edited by IL cow man 6/29/2023 09:20

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My first thought is, how shot is the existing fence? What does it border? What are you planning to run? What are your neighbors running against it?

If the wire is just laid down, it can be picked up and new posts installed. If it borders brush, the cows aren't real eager to push the fence too hard anyway. Mediocre fence can be patched and made to work until you have the funds to do better. I've got fence that was put in in the 60's. It's maybe 36 inches high with two barbs. Other places it's 3 strand barb wire, nothing more. The cows stay in because there's nothing appealing on the other side and no cattle running on the other side. I just stapled it to the trees and trimmed up the brush. Not nat approved but it's rented ground. Well fed cows stay home better than hungry ones.

If it's perimeter fence or near a highway and you've got to build, I prefer 47 inch, wide stay woven wire. 6.5 foot t posts and every 6th line post is hedge. Corners in hedge too. A single, 4 point barb on top will suffice. Woven wire will keep baby calves from slipping through the fence. It stays tight and is a 50 year fence, if properly maintained. Find out who is good at building fence, it's an art. Ask them if they will help you put in the corners. If the corners are well done, you'll have a good fence.

I like electric for my interior fences. Don't cheap out on the fencer or the ground rods.

As others have said, cattle are high, be cautious when you buy. If you can get some fence thrown together and a decent catch pen before fall. There may be a real opportunity to buy cattle out of MO. Rain keeps missing us and our hay crop is sad. Imo it all hinges on getting fall rain.

Keep asking questions :)

IF you are going the electric fence route, START OUT with real ground rods, copper or copper clad steel. Use as many as the directions for your fence charger says, or more.
Buy a charger that comes with a fault finder that also has the remote control built in. Don't go farm store/candy store cheap.

Agree with that. Unless the old fence is rebuildable, tear it out. Nothing like hot wire getting caught on old junk.

Docile cows. Matters not what color or pedigree if they are crazy they are gone. But most good mannerisms comes from time with them, mine come to the sound of shaking feed in a bucket, know the sound of a ranger and my voice. This only happens when you put in the time. It’s all worth it when you’re out at night trying to get them home. And they will get out, matters not how good you fence, accidents and mistakes happen.

I’ve got 1 2 and 3 high tensile smooth hot wire at various points throughout my pasture, use poly wire with step in posts almost all winter long on corn stalks and as cross fence in the pasture with very little incident. Good fencer and ground system is a must, don’t skimp on either, I’m running a Gallagher with 8 8’ ground rods. My cows don’t touch a wire hot or not

Edited by Ralph52 6/29/2023 17:49